The small opening reduces drag and helps improve downforce. Negative Lift?Consider the negative lift required to keep 10700kg on the ground at 1223kph.Look HereCharlie. After many changes by Rockstar over the years, spoilers are now required for these cars and will still improve cornering speeds, but to a lesser extent than if they were added to a non-downforce car. "Right from the beginning, it was called T.50S, and I always said to the guys, 'That's just a working title, we'll think of something,'" Murray says. Without the various air channels and diffusers, DTM wouldn’t be DTM. In contrast to Formula 1 or similar racing competitions, the main objective is not constructing the fastest race car, but the best global concept is being decisive. Well, as the teams develop through the season, putting on more and more downforce at the back of the car, Ferrari might struggle to balance it out at the front. Applying the throttle too heavily will likely lead to wheel spin, reducing your acceleration out of slow corners, and costing you lap time as well as causing significant tyre degradation. If the vehicle is a fixed-wing aircraft, the purpose of the downforce on the horizontal stabilizer is to maintain longitudinal stability and allow the pilot to control the aircraft in pitch. Edited by cheapracer, 11 August 2010 - 12:12. Joey Logano tested the car at Phoenix in November 2019 and said he had to "wrestle" the car. - posted in The Technical Forum Archive: I know exact numbers are hard to come by because of insufficient data or team secrecy, so perhaps this thread will remain largely speculative, but what cars had the highest absolute downforce potential in F1, Indy, and Sportscars? Exploring History's Most Famous Custom Car. Be sure to put the Steering Sensitivity to high and Downforce to low while using this car for better results. Left everything for dead in it's day except for the Brabham fan car at Sweden. This data is pulled from the Forza Horizon 3 developer files & ordered in alphabetical order. + Setups Gameplay. As with the road car, the track-only T50S has eye-widening specs. But the penalty of that has been a reduction in aero efficiency. These Are The Sports Cars With The Most Downforce. The original plan was to control rear ride height actively to maintain a fixed average contact patch load distribution. Apply the braking and throttle techniques as described above. It won't be slow. The car's carbon-fiber monocoque is lighter, thanks to thinner construction, and weight was shaved out of the body panels, all of which are unique to the track-only model. For F1 Cars, the primary aim is to increase the downforce for better grip. For example the Turbo cosworth CART cars of the 1980's may not have had all that much inherent downforce but the fact that they were the only cars to consistently corner at 220+ mph probably means they had very high total downforce just because of the extreme speed but almost any other car would beat them at say 100 mph. This year’s car has shown its biggest advantage over the rival Ferrari through slow corners, as Mercedes have prioritised low-speed downforce, particularly at the rear. So I got in touch with the [Lauda] family through Bernie Ecclestone and they thought it was a great idea.". Especially when you consider how much downforce it's capable of. Simple vents and louvers can assist here, while a full-blown duct transitioning to about 1/3 the surface area of the core is the best bet! Andy Green was instrumental in finding the boundaries incrementally & recovering before the vehicle departed, & rear ride height was eventually "scheduled" open loop as a function of airspeed (or so I was told). Probably a lot of the experimental cars of this era never accurately tested the downforce numbers (the means, and equipment not being available), so it would be speculative to rate them. I hadn't heard about the suspension problems. Its main goals are reducing drag and wind noise, minimizing noise emission, and preventing undesired lift forces and other causes of aerodynamic instability at high speeds. Edited by Jones Foyer, 11 August 2010 - 18:01. Murray says he's currently in talks with sports car racing magnate Stéphane Ratel and SRO Motorsports Group about the possibility of a T.50S racing series. how much induced drag is acceptable for a given downforce – and they will design and develop their car around those targets. The more air moves under the car, the faster it goes and the lower the pressure under the floor. Unlike the road car, which varies fan speed based on numerous factors, on the Lauda the fan runs at maximum speed when the car passes 50 mph. Redline is 12,100 rpm, and Murray is quite proud that the engine's specific output of 178 hp per liter beats that of the legendary Cosworth DFV V-8 engine that dominated Formula 1 beginning in the late Sixties. Page 1 of 2 - Highest ever downforce figure? From an engineer's perspective or a practical ones? Today we look at what speed downforce starts working on cars, and what sort of difference it actually makes to lap times and cornering speeds. Probably the Brabham fan car, tbh. You currently have javascript disabled. Amazing... Just imagine, as quick as that March felt, the Eagle MKIII probably had double the total downforce of that car thanks to a decade of GTP aero development, not to mention better tires. But in the wind tunnel I bet it could make a hell of a number. Theoretically, you'll be able to load your T.50S on a trailer at home, bring it to the track, and run a full day of laps with no support crew, should you choose. These things make life faster and were designed/invented using the same math/physics as engineers have always used.The car's bottoming in turn 3 - ok we will put harder springs in < This answer hasn't changed in 100 years, only the speed the solution is arrived at.Have some respect for engineers of old who managed to make planes fly, meet 2 ends of a tunnel in the middle of a mountain and make race cars go very fast all with the aid of a slide rule and not an electronic device in sight, they knew exactly how much downforce they were achieving. F1 cars create downforce in two areas: the front and rear of the car. I modelled the vehicle & a trial control system & decided that, with (I recall) 5/8 inch front suspension travel & no wheel/tyre deflection to speak of, there was not much chance of reacting in time to a sudden change in aero before the front wheels were off the ground & the only way of keeping the thing under control was by inertia forces. downforce is just negative lift — How a day driving high-downforce cars at VIR taught me I’m OK being slow We try out a Radical SR and Ligier Formula 4 car at Formula Experiences. Some high performance cars have a downforce multiplier. "After Niki passed on, I just thought, 'Wow.' Otherwise high downforce levels will compromise the rest of the course, for high top speed on the straights. Uh, you still need the deflection to calculate it. The interplay of design, budgeting, business concept and the racing performance of the vehicle is taken into account. The result is 725 horsepower at 11,500 rpm, all of which goes to the rear wheels via an XTrac six-speed paddle-shift sequential gearbox derived from a touring car 'box. But yeah, the ground effect era probably made the most peak downforce. Must have been gut wrenching to go through the old turn 2 at Laguna in the Eagle if they'd run that config. That's a contrast to other automakers' track-only toys, like the Ferrari FXX, which can only be kept at the factory and requires a full manufacturer-appointed crew for any track outings. We may earn a commission through links on our site. Consider the negative lift required to keep 10700kg on the ground at 1223kph. Most of these are aimed at making the floor and diffuser work as hard as possible, as more than 50% of total downforce now comes from the floor of the car. But the reason you can … Puny relative to what? Like any high-end performance car, the Aston Martin DB11 has to generate downforce, but since it's a luxury Grand Tourer, it has to do it without wacky-looking bodywork. The bulk of its downforce comes from the rear wing, seen in red, above. I have the utmost respect for Andy Green, because I think the vehicle would probably have killed almost any other driver (pilot). downforce , you really have to define the performance envelope because the higher the upper end of the cars speed range the more likely it is to "win" the prize. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the Gordon Murray Automotive T.50S Niki Lauda looks like it will be very, very good. Tony are these drawings the ones you are referring to? And of course, each T.50S will be a rolling tribute to Niki Lauda. A big new splitter, dive planes, front diffusers, LMP1-style central fin, and a delta-formation rear wing work in tandem with a steep rear diffuser and the T.50's signature fan. The first car recognizes Kyalami, 1974. Whatever it was capable of developing in gross downforce, it likely never achieved it in practice, as it ran on dirt at high/variable ride height and at relatively low speeds up much of the mountain. Edited by Tony Matthews, 12 August 2010 - 09:48. Edited by Dan333SP, 12 August 2010 - 12:20. "What we've come up with is this beast which is going to be very difficult to beat for a track experience. What about one of those Pikes Peak unlimited-category machines? I don't think anybody's going to get close to this.". It's tempting to compare the T.50S to racing versions of Murray's other supercar legend, the McLaren F1, but Murray points out two clear distinctions. This affects both front wing and rear wing in a very good way, improving their aerodynamic performance as well. Only 25 examples of the T.50S will be built. "I set some really tough targets for the team on this, and we've beaten all of them—on downforce, on weight, and on power," Murray says. We may earn a commission through links on our site. Edited by ivanalesi, 11 August 2010 - 18:38. Several functions may not work. Our product picks are editor-tested, expert-approved. I think I may have discussed this a couple of times on this forum.I was stationed at Travis AFB in the mid 1990s and one day received a call (out of the blue) from Craig Breedlove's shop. Another problem was the skirts jamming, as they and the channel that they worked in was curved to go round the inside of the rear wheels, and used to stick. Murray wants this track machine to be approachable, so everything from chassis setup to downforce level can be tailored to a driver's preference. - High Levels of downforce - Updates to car.ini - Extreme changes to Aero.lut files - updated tires - Car performance is in line with the 2019 Rebellion R13 High downforce package. Freed from road car regulations and daily-driver necessities, the Cosworth 3.9-liter V-12 gets a new ram-air induction system, new heads and camshafts, 12 individual throttle bodies, titanium intake valves, and a bump in compression to 15:1. Murray says getting rid of the catalytic converters and moving the two exhausts closer together makes it sound like the revs are doubled. And while the F1 GTR was developed with the ultimate goal of winning the 24 Hours of Le Mans, the T.50S is mainly meant to be the ultimate track-day machine. When conceiving their cars, teams will choose their aerodynamic efficiency targets – i.e. High downforce cars tend to come with high horsepower and/or powerful turbos or hybrid systems. Edited by mariner, 13 August 2010 - 07:59. This increases stability when traveling at speed, yet crucially leaves the characteristically agile dynamics of the Sports Series firmly intact during lower speed driving. I doubt they even knew the downforce within 10% with any confidence. Suggested By: Th4d0s, Photo Credit: Audi You may be able to find more information about this and similar content at piano.io, Johnson Making Quite a First Impression in IndyCar, Lane Splitting Will Soon Be Legal in Montana, Audi RS E-Tron GT Hits 159 MPH on the Autobahn, Owners Say New 2021 Ford F-150 Trucks Are Rusting, Williams F1 Car Launch Derailed By Hacked App, A New Three-Row Land Rover Defender 130 Is Coming, Bristol Faces Huge Challenge for NASCAR on Dirt, "Fast & Furious 9" Delayed For a Third Time, Just Dropped: R&T Crew's Mad Scientist-Themed Box. Downforce is a downwards lift force created by the aerodynamic characteristics of a vehicle. "I think we're going to set the world on fire again," Murray says with a laugh during a video chat with Road & Track. The High Downforce Kit adds an incredible 75kg of extra downforce – pushing your car’s surefootedness to even greater heights. A Indy car for example would probably be generally set up to have a greater top speed then a F1 car as a comparison, as the F1 car will require greater levels of grip and downforce for the corners, especially with its rapid directional changes to reduce lap times. It was also flat bottomed. Apologies, but I don't think so. May I suggest, if we are going to post DF from various racing categories, that the vehicle mass also be posted? MSO Defined High Downforce Kit for Sports Series models joins McLaren Genuine Accessory range. For whatever it's worth, the grand champion for max hypothetical downforce might be Millen's Toyota Pikes Peak car. I thought, what a lovely thing to do. No aerodynamic surfaces were controlled at any time.There were other problems too. This wing has a lift to drag ratio of 5:1, meaning that for every Newton of drag force, it creates 5N of downforce. I suggested, strongly, that they should fit controlled foreplanes, & demonstrated (by modelling) that the vehicle could be controlled in pitch & roll using those as emergency "motivators".RN decided to plough on regardless &, as a result, I decided not to be involved. Downforce? Judging by what we know about it, we suspect the T.50S Niki Lauda will wear its name with pride. Based on the road-going GMA T.50—a three-seat supercar with a Cosworth V-12 engine and a giant electric fan in the rear bodywork for downforce—the T.50S started from a fantastic basis. All rights reserved. #2. One point on max. If you're going to name a car after Formula 1 legend Niki Lauda, it better be good. Stock Downforce Levels for Most Cars in Forza Horizon 3 (Should Apply to Forza Motorsport 7): Here's the stock downforce levels for most of the cars in Forza Horizon 3 (which should apply to Forza Motorsport 7). This car we were challenging ourselves to getting over 1,000 kilos (2,200 pounds) of downforce, so you need obvious aero. It’s All About the Downforce. I remember when the Lotus 88 was banned Colin Chapman getting very angry and even hiring lawyers ( novel in those days). Jaeger Pilot. Too much downforce adds drag, slowing the car down in a straight line. I think you may be wrong and right at the same time - these designers were leaning heavily and employing the sort of people who put 747 Jumbo's thru to airforce fighters into the air, they knew exactly on paper what downforce they should be acheiving but having that actually happen on a racetrack probably brings your 10% into play as a variation on track. I actually have no idea how advanced these equations and lookups were at the time - especially concerning those dang spinning wheels! Now, if we go back to the subject of high-performance cars, it is fundamental to understand that downforce-generating components (e.g. And sensors and telemetry weren't quite as prevalent 40 years ago. "We just want to make it accessible and enjoyable rather than focus on compromising the whole motor car for a lap time around the Nürburging," Murray says. For example, when I tried the Porsche 911 GT2 RS, I was told that it generated 100 kg in front and 200 kilograms behind. In the event, the initial active rear ride height control system proved to be inadequate (despite a 1 millisec response time). Edited by McGuire, 12 August 2010 - 16:00. Looks that thrill. GMA will offer a support program called Trackspeed for those who want a full crew to attend their T.50S track outings, but Murray says the car was designed to make track day adjustments simple and accessible. Unveiled on Lauda's birthday, the GMA T.50S Niki Lauda is a track-only machine with 725 hp and making up to 3300 lbs of downforce. I offer the Lotus 80: It didn't work, partly because suspension technology of the time was incapable of supporting the aero loads. Sep 19, 2020 @ 5:24pm I did another test around Daytona Internation Speedway Tri-Oval with the Ferrari 488 GT3. If the vehicle is a car, the purpose of downforce is to allow the car to travel faster by increasing the vertical force on the tires, thus creating more grip. The cars of today are already boring enough as they go around the corners on rails, I can't see over-developed tunneled cars being any better. I recently read in the Porsche 911 Turbo S test that, with all ailerons in ‘attack’ position, it could generate 100kg of downforce, a relatively small figure … at least when compared to that of other sister models. I was informed the Thrust SSC, OTOH, has an active downforce control system ... there are load cells on the wheels and the t-tail is controlled by a computer to maintain a certaing amount of downforce on the wheels. I was moved to describe it at one point as a supersonic dumper truck, courtesy of rear steered wheels. Downforce production is dominated by ground-effect, namely the Venturi effect, with the underbody and front wing producing most of the downforce on the car. Low Speed Cornering . If there is not enough downforce, the car will end up flying and crashing. The Ferrari is now a more aero-efficient car, but struggles badly in slow corners against the Merc. Road & Track participates in various affiliate marketing programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites. The Lotus 79 had a relatively puny 4,453 lbs at 200 mph, but I'd bet that the 88 was at least 1,000 or 2,000 lbs better than that. “It’s something we picked up from Silverstone,” said Ricciardo. © MOTORSPORT NETWORK 2021. The downforce does matter when it comes to handling. This focus on downforce enables the car’s amazing cornering speed while pulling up to 3.5G’s. No surprise that this was a deciding factor in successfully setting a new record. A high downforce car is much easier to drive, but low downforce doesn't seem to have an advantage. Automotive aerodynamics is the study of the aerodynamics of road vehicles. Author Peugeot905 File size 75.8 MB Downloads 792 Views 4,064 First release Feb 22, 2021 Last update Feb 22, 2021 Rating 4.75 star(s) 4 ratings Support Thread. Edited by cheapracer, 11 August 2010 - 16:59. On the outside, these race cars have evolved into insanely technical pieces of machinery that when outside of a race track, basically live in a wind tunnel. VERY cool information, can't believe you got to go for a hotlap around Laguna in a GTP driven by PLN! Sales Sank, But 2020 Was Dealers' Best Year Ever, The New Isuzu D-Max Is the Only Pickup I Want, Watching Cops Chase a Stolen 996 GT3 Is Hilarious, Mazda MX-5 Miata: Guide to Every Generation, Behind the Scenes With Gymkhana’s Best Custom Cars, The GMA T.50 Is the Successor to the McLaren F1, Let Gordon Murray Explain The T.50's Wild Rear Fan, This content is created and maintained by a third party, and imported onto this page to help users provide their email addresses. Once airflow is well directed into the core, it needs a place to get out of the engine bay. He was a very good friend as well as a great racing driver, and we worked together for a couple of years. Front wings and bargeboards generate downforce at the front, with the diffuser and rear wing producing downforce at the rear – with most of the car’s downforce being produced at the rear.